Is Geoff Southern being shafted or throwing toys?

[fryertucker]

Having unsuccessfully run for senator, Deputy Geoff Southern turned his attention to gaining a ministerial position.

When he failed at that twice, he felt he had a good shot at chairing a scrutiny panel. But his States colleagues didn't agree.

He told channelonline.tv; "Of course it's personal and you could see that by the smiles on certain faces. Many people still as I'm looking at them, deliberately in the eye, the glance is slipping past me and some people I think feel ashamed of what has happened and indeed it was a shameful act. It was a shameful, craven act of political cowardice."

http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline/displayarticle.asp?id=374311

[boatyboy]

Rougeelement said, which makes sense.

we elect like Southern in the States the bigger the payments will become, not because they are worthwhile , simply because money for nothing is a vote catcher , ask ex President Clinton! 

It got me thinking, about Geouf Southern, having the door closed gently on him, stopping the Deputy from gaining a strong power-play position by people that know him well, in the States.

Some leaning left sceptics may argue, he was too correct and clever, others may argue, he brought scrutiny into a lower class because it was not about facts and truths but political manovering for him. Surely the job of a politician is to look after the well being of the majority, and these days the minority, and use balance and fairness when there is a conflict of interests.

It is certain that, Deputy Southern will work hard, to scream for more benefits, more handouts even, what is a little comforting is that his colleagues have decided to listen to him, ( In my opinion) more from the wings, and not the centre stage, this place is to be taken by far more moderate, and careful, people, who like most of us, have had to work hard for our pennies. As far as benefits are concerned, a hardening of popular opinion was always going to happen amongst the working populace, and is now knocking on the door.   

Geoff Southern is not history and deserves his place to add balance, but the lazy days of hand outs for those that cannot be bothered, or want more for nothing hopefully are.

http://planetjersey.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1396.msg22234.html#msg22234

Boatyboy.

[fryertucker]

I understand that part of the deal for rich people to come here is that they paid a pre-agreed level of tax.  I do not know what the figures are but I understand it to be a minimum of £100,000.00 a year on average.  Some 1.1. (k)'s are also allowed in if they prove to supply business or work in Jersey.  I do not think it is an exact science.

There is nothing wrong in Geoff Southern attacking the 1.1.(k) system, but at the time many came in, there probably wasn't as many less well off people claiming money from the State. 

In fact all he has done so far is actually show an envy for people that have been more successful in life with money than people he supposedly represents.

[fryertucker]

I don't disagree, but if they came into the Island at a time when they had agreed to pay a set amount of tax (And say £100,000.00 is a fair amount), then you cannot start demanding them to rip up their original contracts and join the JDA.

It is funny because I bet a few 1.1.(k)'s originally came to Jersey to get a way from a socialist government in the first place and were sick of paying tax for people that were on benefits!

[fryertucker]

Well I think the main problem has always been the need for GST in the first place and that is back to the States of Jersey wage bill.

You make fair comments about the 1.1.(k) system but I doubt it will change anything, because if these people are forced to pay more tax they have the option to just pack up and go somewhere else.

Alter agreements?  If they are legal contracts I doubt they ever can be.

[fryertucker]

There are other factors that come into the equation.  An ageing population and who pays for them?  The 1.1.(k)'s?  The numbers that come here which I think is about 150 in total is not going to solve the Island's problems.

The future is probably more bleaker than ever for any young person living in Jersey.  A double edged sword, now you are taxed on a meal, you lose your tax relief to buy an over inflated house and for those that struggle the money is not in the pot anymore, or its being cut back.

Our strategic reserve is what £600 Million? And the budget for 2009 is £650 Million?  We cannot even survive for one year now if worst came to the worst.

What we actually need is a bubble burst and then a new foundation to build it all up again, but if that did happen a lot of people would also suffer so where do you start?

I sort of look at the Island as an economic train which is hurtling down the line with no breaks and no way to turn.
 

[fryertucker]

I would say that so must money wastage has gone on over the years that this is why we are at the stage we are.  And we are still not learning anything.

The other problem we probably always had was an attitude of "I am okay boss" and for the person afterwards thats their problem.

Some departing States members are responsible for that approach.

I still think there has to be a balance though, I pay a fair amount of tax, I pay GST and I get no rebates at all from the State.  I pay to see my own doctor which is slightly subsidised by my Social Security payments and my rates cover my bins and street lighting.

In a nut shell I get nothing back from the system for all the money that is taken from me.

Call me a middle earner if you like, but it does annoy me when I see people complain about not being looked after by the State when they have not contributed anything into it.

[fryertucker]

The Island has always been fueled by greed.  The fast buying and selling of property.  Capital gains incentives on various financial products, (and I am talking about locals here), and the biggest one - vested interest.

What does a Jersey Property Developer need £43,000.00 a year for?  Or a person worth, what £4 Million doing his bit for the Environment?

The first one is the biggest question of the lot.

My predictions for next year is that GST will stay, housing quals will drop to 10 years and 20 means 20 will remain no matter what.  And to top it all spending will continue to go unchecked and by the end of 2009 the 2010 budget will be around £700 Million.

[moot]

I understand that part of the deal for rich people to come here is that they paid a pre-agreed level of tax.  I do not know what the figures are but I understand it to be a minimum of £100,000.00 a year on average.  Some 1.1. (k)'s are also allowed in if they prove to supply business or work in Jersey.  I do not think it is an exact science.

That might be in theory but after a few games on the golf course with the right people and promises in the right direction these "deals" are likely to become foggy
Money talks in the island !

[danrok]

Its not about envy its about paying your fair share.

Taxation has never been fair, the abstract concept known as "money" is not a fair system, and was never intended to be.

Before the world can come anywhere near to being fair, we need to decide on what fair really is.

Forget about abstract stuff like money and spreadsheets, what's really important are things like food, water, sanitation, a home to live in, fuel for the fire.  Until these things are shared in a fair way, we don't stand a chance.  It's not what the rich pay in tax that matters, but what they consume - vastly more than the majority, and well beyond their fair share of what we have collectively.

Why do we idolise greedy people, celebrities, the elite, the hoarders, or whatever you want to call them?

We can take some satisfaction that one of them, Madoff, is off to jail, but that alone will make no real difference.  The whole world needs to change.

[fryertucker]

I dare say that does happen.  Usually the people that come over with massive wealth know members of the 'elite' already.

But thats life.

[fryertucker]

Yes, but then we fall into another debate, when they get more tax what do they spend it on?  Because they sure as hell do not give it to the poor.

[fryertucker]

Well we are all paying more taxes through GST so where is the benefit?

Your argument is not making much sense.  Sorry if I have gone on a tangent here.

[danrok]

Danrok what does fair taxation do? It spreads the resources more evenly around enabling those with little or nothing the ability to survive. Are the rich too greedy to allow this? If the rich paid more taxes their consumption would inevitably fall thus helping us all and the planet to boot.

How even do you feel when compared to Bill Gates, or any other billionaire who pays tax?

How even are things likely to become, given just how disproportionate things are right now?

Only those who live in relatively close proximity to the rich can get any benefits from taxation, just enough to keep 'em quiet!

Those further away, who don't get a penny, must be referred to as "terrorists" when they get desperate and decide that they've had enough of being on the shit end of the stick.

[fryertucker]

I think we are creeping towards the envy of people with money again.  We live in a free world Tetras.  Communism is a thing of the past and should remain there.