Deputy Southern admits breaking electoral law

[rico sorda]

No one falls on there sword, from civil servants down to deputy's its the jersey way end of story its why we are in the poo..

You break the law you go as simple as that 

Dead patient & Abused kids.. Harper, Power& Syvret all ridiculed & one removed from post nothing learnt  from the Bellwood fiasco the Bailiff lying in the states im bloody sick of it  civil servants rule us. everyday a new feckin mess & a whopping big recession

2009 going to be a great year

See ya at the bar

rs

[danrok]

An example of someone far more important, resigning over something less serious, i.e. not illegal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3001812.stm

[Eastern correspondent]

We have a Mickey Mouse Government with a majority of MM politicians, personally I applaud the actions of GS and SP - Voter apathy in this island is at an all time low - so in my personal opinion any steps taken to re-engage the electorate should be applauded.

GS and SP could have been sneaky and got any number of their supporters to assist the elderly, infirm and just plain busy to get included in the postal registration - but did not - that was foolish but overt!
Indeed SP said during a States debate that she would break the law and did, that was BEFORE the elections took place.

To suggest that a person was unaware of other candidates is just plain stupid. the law is wrong!

[Ashley]

It's not really the fact that it's against the law, or the fact that it's possible that he may have talked some of these people into voting one way or another, it's to absolute blind naivety behind it all.  Jersey just doesn't need it IMO.

[rogueelement]

First of all , the man is a total disgrace, not only happy to break the Law but to stand up and be proud of the fact!
Strange how he never mentioned this at the time of the elections although rumours were rife that he had in fact conducted himself in this unlawful manner, I guess he was not quite so proud of the facts until he was found out.
Secondly a fine is a joke, this clown will be employed for another 3 years on 48K . two thousand is a drop in the ocean.
On that basis I will be happy to print off my own election postal votes , tick, em , file em, destroy the ones i do not like, and take the filthy lucre!
He should be imprisoned , impeached, removed (I do not suppose we are allowed to have hung drawn and quartered in the royal square?)
The voters of the Island have been brushed aside by one mans' megalomania.
Out now Southern and take your cronies with you , your party is not only morally bankrupt , it is also intellectually bankrupt and it is quite repulsive that you and yours pursue States people for destroying  notes (Standard practice unless you are a policeman on the beat) whilst falsifying your own voting base.
disgust does not even begin to describe how I feel about this matter and I look forward to hearing from ST Stewart of the poor cowering masses ,condemning this matter with his usual bile and bitterness about betrayal. 

[Linda Corby]

First of all , the man is a total disgrace, not only happy to break the Law but to stand up and be proud of the fact!
Strange how he never mentioned this at the time of the elections although rumours were rife that he had in fact conducted himself in this unlawful manner, I guess he was not quite so proud of the facts until he was found out.
Secondly a fine is a joke, this clown will be employed for another 3 years on 48K . two thousand is a drop in the ocean.
On that basis I will be happy to print off my own election postal votes , tick, em , file em, destroy the ones i do not like, and take the filthy lucre!
He should be imprisoned , impeached, removed (I do not suppose we are allowed to have hung drawn and quartered in the royal square?)
The voters of the Island have been brushed aside by one mans' megalomania.
Out now Southern and take your cronies with you , your party is not only morally bankrupt , it is also intellectually bankrupt and it is quite repulsive that you and yours pursue States people for destroying  notes (Standard practice unless you are a policeman on the beat) whilst falsifying your own voting base.
disgust does not even begin to describe how I feel about this matter and I look forward to hearing from ST Stewart of the poor cowering masses ,condemning this matter with his usual bile and bitterness about betrayal. 

It is this simple; in Jersey in my opinion we do have an unofficial majority Elitist Establishment political party in power.  At the head of this party is the AG who has the power to dictate what prosecution’s go to court or not. He can say “not in the public interest “and veto any case he wishes, and that is that end of  it, irrespective of whatever the vetoed crime committed might be.

I do not consider this to be a just system, the AG is for obviously reasons extremely unlikely to veto any crime committed by any member of a party that is in opposition to the Elitist Establishment Party, which the JDA blatantly are.

The Law that GS and SP have broken is as Senator Stuart Syvret commented on his blog quote: “crackers and incompetent piece of typically Jersey oligarchy crypto-fascistic legislation.” End quote: He has offered and said in this comment.  I quote: “I'm not a member of the JDA, never have been - but if they need me to appear as a political 'expert witness' for them, I am ready and willing to do so.

The law which was allegedly broken - was enacted by the Jersey oligarchy for the plain and obvious purpose of preventing large numbers of usually disenfranchised voters - the elderly, poor and infirm - from being able to cast a ballot.

In Jersey the smaller the turn-out of voters - the better it is for our entrenched, corrupt oligarchy.” End quote:
I find it quite a fear-provoking situation and very wrong.
There is far too mush done behind closed doors and in secret in this island, it is no wonder that people are shouting cover up right left and center.

Senator Stuart Syvret say’s further down in his blog comment and I quote: “It is all a tragic and despicable picture of the depths to which traditional authority in Jersey has descended to - that any anti-establishment person is pilloried for the most petty of misdemeanours - and yet any oligarchy member - hello Tel Boy Le Main - who engages in scarcely concealed villainy - gets the pro-active protection of the Attorney General and his brother, the Bailiff.

And so utterly complacent and arrogantly assured are the Jersey oligarchy of their position - that people like Tel Boy - Jersey spiv personified - can start publicly demanding the resignation of the two Deputies.

Well - Tel Boy - here's a demand from me: you resign immediately - for - as is a matter of fact as recorded in court - having forged the signatures of little old ladies on a tenancy agreement for your dodgy car business. End quote:

If this last quote of Senator Stuart Syvrets doesn’t put you in the picture nothing will!

Note:  I am not a member of the JDA.

I say to the AG many cases were in the public interest to prosecute 100% more than it is to prosecute Deputies Southern & Pitman who have in my opinion not committed a crime as the law as it stands is not human rights compliant.

I am not a cowering person you only have to read my latest blog if you don’t believe me http://lcorby.wordpress.com/2009/02/05/senator-terry-le-main-a-jersey-channel-islands-minister-spits-out-the-dummy-part-2/, and I do not suffer from bile either, but I do feel the people of Jersey are being betrayed on a number of fronts.

I believe in fair play and equal rights for one and all, a level playing field without it being a case of ‘Some people being more equal than others.’ Go and read ‘Animal Farm’ it is educational and in my opinion should be on the school’s compulsory curriculum.

[rogueelement]

Animal Farm was on the curriculum when I was at school .That is why most of my generation (The hippy, Che Guevera loving ,mad marxist tendency) were almost the first to begin the questioning of so many of the practices of those times.And what fabulous changes we have seen in the last 30 years!
Then of course we grew up.As Churchhill said " If you are not a communist when you are young you have no heart, if you are still a communist when you are older , you have no brain"   
You may have noticed this thread is about Southern and Pitmans' illegal activities during the last election. You continuously twist every thread on here to suit your campaign against Terry Le Main. why not stick to the thread?
You will obviously continue your campaign and since I have read most of what you have previously written , you may have a point , but what worries me is that you appear to have serious bunny boiling tendencies which cloud your judgment on every other matter .
Two wrongs do not make a right!
Southern should resign . Pitman should resign .
All of those votes cast under Southerns hand and or gaze should be closely examined. I suppose however that they have since been shredded destroyed?
Never mind you can still attack Bill Ogilvey for shredding his notes.It would be hilarious if it was not so pathetic.

[cpcarrot]

In my view what they have done is wrong, and a hideously bad example to be setting by members of the States. The simple fact is that it was illegal, and that has been admitted. These are States Members who actually sat in the chambers as this law was passed. If they can’t even obey the law, what impression does this give to the rest of the island and how they should view the laws that comes out of the States? If I decide Heroin is pretty sweet and I really enjoy being high all the time and so should my friends, does that make it OK for me to import a few kgs onto the island and sell it on? Maybe I’ve got a slightly corrupt communist view and believe all possessions should be shared around equally, does that make stealing stuff out of peoples houses OK? If I believe in forced marriages, are they OK too? How about if I disagree that having sex with under age children is a crime, is that alright? The law, is the law and even though at times everyone may disagree with it, it at the very least disserves respect. These are people who are even in a position to influence and change it, surely even for the sake of setting an example they of all people should respect it.

Now just for a second lets put aside the above and the fact that what they were doing was illegal. In all honesty I don’t think you can, but for the sake of argument lets at least move on from that fact and lets assume that what he was doing was attempting to make a legitimate political point. Surely the way they did it was either moronically stupid, or just plane corrupt? A truly legitimate way of making this point would have been to go out and help people fill in these registration forms who vote in every district EXCEPT the one the JDA are standing in. They could have gone out and done what they say is the nice, kind, considerate, human rights compliant thing to do, in any other district and thus make the point whilst having no impact whatsoever on their own election. But did they do this? Nope. Instead they did it in the district where three members of the JDA were running and that district only. Surely even the least bright politician can see that this is not the way to make a legitimate political point? Surely no matter what it gives the impression of manipulating voters? So I guess that leaves one of two options, either they are just that stupid / naïve that this thought didn’t cross their mind, or they had some other motive in doing it solely in the one district they were running in. Guess it’s take your pick really.

As to the other way Deputy Southern seems to have been spinning it, that it was part of an effort to take the law through the courts and get it overturned on human rights grounds, that again makes no real sense. Surely if you want to provoke a court case of this type, you get one member of your party to do it once in a highly publicised event and then promptly turn themselves in. You don’t do it the 20+ times he is being charged with, in secret, without publicising the fact at the time, or get other members of your party doing it at the same time. No you do it once, announcing your going to do it publicly so it is clear as to your motivations and reasons, again in a completely different district so it can have no impact on the election itself (apart from as an issue the voters are then aware of) and then take it through the court process from there.

I personally would like to see a re-election run in that district, as no matter how much of an impact this matter actually has had on the actual votes cast, it has at the very least given the impression that the democratic process has been in someway mistreated. Just as justice must be seen to be done and seen to be done fairly, democracy must be seen to be done and seen to be done fairly. In terms of resignations, I would certainly expect something as the precedence has already been set back in 1994 when the constable of St John was ordered to resign after been convicted of drink driving:


From jerseylaw.je in re Constable of St. John:

“CONSTABLE—conviction of criminal offence
  A Constable was convicted of driving with excess alcohol and the Attorney General applied to the Royal Court for a ruling as to whether the Constable should therefore resign from his position.
  Held: A Constable should normally resign in these circumstances. There were no special factors that would have mitigated his sentence for the offence and it was irrelevant both that he had held the position of Constable satisfactorily for a long time and that the electors of his Parish wished him to remain in office.”

[rogueelement]

Brilliant comment CPCarrot, I bow and wave my chapeau in your general direction.

[Forest]

I'm just a simple Jerseyman, but we are talking about two elected officials who admit interfering in the electoral process, and we are discussing 'if', rather than 'when' they should resign ! In the words of the deity, 'you really couldn't make it up'.

[Linda Corby]

Animal Farm was on the curriculum when I was at school .That is why most of my generation (The hippy, Che Guevera loving ,mad marxist tendency) were almost the first to begin the questioning of so many of the practices of those times.And what fabulous changes we have seen in the last 30 years!
Then of course we grew up.As Churchhill said " If you are not a communist when you are young you have no heart, if you are still a communist when you are older , you have no brain"   
You may have noticed this thread is about Southern and Pitmans' illegal activities during the last election. You continuously twist every thread on here to suit your campaign against Terry Le Main. why not stick to the thread?
You will obviously continue your campaign and since I have read most of what you have previously written , you may have a point , but what worries me is that you appear to have serious bunny boiling tendencies which cloud your judgment on every other matter .
Two wrongs do not make a right!
Southern should resign . Pitman should resign .
All of those votes cast under Southerns hand and or gaze should be closely examined. I suppose however that they have since been shredded destroyed?
Never mind you can still attack Bill Ogilvey for shredding his notes.It would be hilarious if it was not so pathetic.

Andy I do not have a campaign against TLM it is him who has a thing about me, I didn’t start on him he started on me and I won’t allow myself to be bullied by him or anyone else.  Sorry I don’t suffer from any psychotic bunny boiling characteristics if TLM hadn’t picked on me with his rude emails and then kept having a go. If he hadn’t deliberately harassed me I wouldn’t have bothered producing a blog about him at all;  Unfortunately  as  Margaret Thatcher  said quote: “You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it.” I actually do have better things to do with my time, like living a peaceful life.

 Yes I have a heart I am a humanitarian by nature, but no I am not a communist.  There are faults with every political party’s policies in my opinion. (My views on this could produce a series of books.)

I agree that two wrongs don’t make a right, just feel that what GS & SP did was wrong but somewhat of a misdemeanour in comparison to some other things that the AG has judged as “No further action to be taken as not in the public interest.” Would I resign in their shoes? Not applicable because I wouldn’t have done what they reportedly have done. Should they resign? The case has yet to be heard so my judgement is reserved until I know all the real facts, but for all I know they could intend to resign and re stand for election?

 In an ideal world  one man who has an obvious political siding should not be allowed to dictate what does or does not get prosecuted for, this should be down to the police to decide based on the real evidence on whatever the case might be.  If GS & SP are made to resign then it is my opinion that there are a number of others who also should for their past misdemeanours.

I have never personally passed any comment on Bill Ogilvey reference shredding or anything else. Why would I personally want to attack him?

I say: "Fair play is treating everyone equally and impartially across the board, and it will be ray of sunshine when this happens! In a democracy, laws must be fair, clearly defined, and applied equally to all members of society citizens and rulers."

[George]

Both Pitman and Southern claim that they were acting on principal.  I feel it's strange that they only declared that they were acting on principal when they had been caught out.  If they were acting on principal and wanted to make a point surley they should have turned themselves in to prove they were making a point.  They didn't, they broke the law and should both resign. NOW. 

[Linda Corby]

Both Pitman and Southern claim that they were acting on principal.  I feel it's strange that they only declared that they were acting on principal when they had been caught out.  If they were acting on principal and wanted to make a point surley they should have turned themselves in to prove they were making a point.  They didn't, they broke the law and should both resign. NOW. 

Many people are saying on BBC Radio talkback right now that GS & SP declared openly that they were going to break this law before being elected; doesn’t it tell people something when they were voted in with people knowing this before voting them in anyway

They were honest about what they intended to do and everyone I know says the same thing, they want this unfair law dumped and some actually voted for them based on this and other political views.

The BBC just apologized on their lunchtime news for accusations made about GS, he did not admit to fraud and they reported he had. Talk about quick to jump on anything that could make the establishment party look better 

[Forest]

What waffle. You can argue semantics until the cows come home. This is black and white. They broke the law, and in light of their position of governance, and the behavioural standards these positions demand, let alone that the offence involved a corruption of the electoral process, not only should they go, but they have proved that they cannot be trusted to ever stand again in the future.  

If I am arrested for speeding on Victoria Avenue and lose my licence as a result, is it a fair defence that I should be able to continue driving as my personal view is that the limit is too low ? If the boot was on the other foot and this offence had been committed by an 'establishment' politician who refused to go, you would have the usual malcontents calling for revolution, and for once, they might actualy have a point.

 

[Ashley]

If I am arrested for speeding on Victoria Avenue and lose my licence as a result, is it a fair defence that I should be able to continue driving as my personal view is that the limit is too low ? If the boot was on the other foot and this offence had been committed by an 'establishment' politician who refused to go, you would have the usual malcontents calling for revolution, and for once, they might actualy have a point. 

It would sound better though if you were driving a disabled person somewhere important at the time of your speeding.