Author Topic: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island  (Read 6253 times)

Offline cpcarrot

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2009, 10:07:49 AM »
A greater police presence would have very little and most likely no effect on the level of burglaries in either St Saviour No 1 or any other areas. About the only way additional officers on the street can have any effect on what is essentially opportunistic crime is if you somehow manage to have a police officer standing guard on every street 24 hours a day 365 days a year.

Jersey has a very low acquisitive crime rate, particularly in respect of domestic burglary, which gets periodically upset by a spate of them happening at once (such as what occurred in St Saviour No 1), almost always be the same group of offenders. The detection rates are quite high for this time of offence in Jersey compared to elsewhere (over double that of the UK average), largely because this is a very small community where word does get around and the ability to offload stolen goods without detection is extremely limited.

Reduction of this type of crime can not viably be achieved through additional beat officers on the streets (short of a many fold expansion of the SOJP budget and basically being prepared to live in a police state) and is largely combated through investigation and prosecution of prolific offenders. This has been carried out, largely to good effect, by the two new branches of the former SOJP CID (The Pro-Active and Reactive Investigation teams).

The single factor that actually would have a marketable effect on this sort of crime is an increased level of domestic security throughout the island. I haven’t got this year’s figures available but in Jersey in previous years it has been deemed that 80% of the domestic burglaries that did occur could have been prevented through basic household security precautions, and I can’t imagine this years figures will be any different. Householders making sure to secure their homes correctly would have a far greater impact on this sort of crime than any practical increase to the number of police officers on the streets.

Perhaps if Deputy Macon had come forward with something a bit less obvious than (and I am paraphrasing) “Does the Minister know that in a recession crime levels go up”, as that is unfortunately about as obvious as asking “Is the Minister aware that the Pope is Catholic?”. Especially as the UK news services have been making that point for about 6 months now. I suspect this is largely the source of the sarcastic comments above, and doesn’t help when you are trying to get away from the reputation of being rather a tad naïve. 

Maybe instead of asking the Home Affairs Minister what is a fairly pointless question, he should perhaps demonstrate some leadership potential and actually propose ideas to help combat the already expected rise in crime (such as programs to improve domestic security arrangements in the island, through education and easy access to effective security measures, something that can be done very inexpensively and can make a big difference, or how about appropriate advice in respect of insurance arrangements to ensure that you don’t suffer too adversely from any domestic burglary that may occur). I would imagine that all these concerned residents of St Saviour No 1 might well prefer this approach.

Offline Extreme

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 12:13:07 PM »
If people are so worried about burglary in St Saviour then ask a representative from Crime Stoppers to do a talk on burglary prevention.  I still think this motion has nothing to do with the Government.  It is a Police matter.

Offline Fritz

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 12:17:28 PM »
I,m getting confused here. Is it Nellie or Jeremy who was elected into the States?

Offline Nellie Macon

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2009, 03:12:13 AM »
Fritz - don't even go there. As it happens I speak to the people in my area as well and I have every right to voice my opinions on this platform as I believe everyone's welcome or has this changed? I'm very happy to provide you with explanations and background information (if I am aware of it) regarding why certain things are happening in the States and it's not just Jeremy I speak to - I'm on good terms with most of the new members and think they are an excellent lot and a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately as they and likeminded progressives are outnumbered 17 to 35 it's going to be an uphill struggle to actually achieve anything worthwhile. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't keep plugging away or that members of the public such as myself are wasting our time trying to assist and support them as much as we can. I try to remain positive and constructive - which is very difficult when I come on this site and continually get slagged off - makes me wonder why I bother.

On the subject of burglaries, before making any suggestions as to what can be done about a potential / existing problem one has to know what is being proposed and Ian Le Marquand promised all sorts of things when he was seeking election and no-one knew if he had actually started to implement anything. As it happens it appears that he hasn't. The people in St Saviour No1 wanted a greater police presence, even if this just gave them more peace of mind. Currently if you call the police it can take upto 2hrs before anyone turns up - not terribly reassuring and naturally people are concerned.

Offline Ashley

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2009, 03:38:46 AM »
 ???

I'm sure if you call the police with an actual pressing issue, like an ongoing assault, or an actual robbery occuring while you're on the phone, they'll arrive in seconds.

For a Mod you don't sound very impartial and you do appear to be making some sweeping statements.


Why put more police on the streets if it doesn't make a difference, other than to reassure people?  They need to get on with their lives and realise that Jersey is a very safe place to live.
More police on the streets will only cause more paranoia and spread a general bad feeling about the place.  These people wont realise that until there's police everywhere.

Offline the 13th parish

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2009, 04:47:10 AM »
Nellie Macon of course people are going to wind you up,you seem so much more aware and are so much better at getting your point across than your son that we all wonder why you didnt stand to be elected.
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

Offline cpcarrot

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2009, 05:02:00 AM »
Average Salary of a Police Constable in Jersey is a little over £40K. In order to have 1 police officer on duty 24 hours a day 7 days a week you require 6 police officers (to take into account shifts, off days, holidays, sickness etc). So it costs about a quarter of a million pounds a year purely in salary (so not including all the training costs, equipment costs and any other related costs) to assign one police officer to patrol an area. Given the cost factor, it is not particularly surprising that Home Affairs wants to maximise the use of their resources and having police officers hanging around simply to provide peace of mind is hardly maximising their effectiveness.

You also have the issue that SOJP are an island wide police force and therefore have to allocate its resources based on the needs of the island as a whole. Deputy Macon will tug for more resources in his district; every other deputy / constable will tug for those same resources elsewhere.

This sounds to me like a case of having to ask the question, “Why do you want that?” People in St Saviour No 1 are saying they want an increased police presence; the question is therefore “why do they want an increased police presence?” If it’s to target burglaries then a greater police presence will not help them, and it would be actually be doing them a disservice to provide one as it simply gives the impression of tackling the problem rather than actually addressing it. Instead measures that would actually be effective should be employed along with helping educate members of the district. If it is something different that they want the police presence for then maybe something else would be the appropriate action to take. Either way it is a case of finding out what the constituents actually want, rather than what they think they want.

In respect of response times, again all calls put through to SOJP are assigned a priority order. A genuine emergency call will have a unit on the scene within 8 minutes (in St Saviour often a lot sooner, but that is their target response time). Incidents that are assigned a lower priority will be responded to much slower, as and when resources are available. A very low priority incident (the good old ones “there are some kids looking scary on the corner”, cat stuck up tree, noisy party) is likely to take quite a while to get a police response, especially when other incidents have their priority. Likewise anything that doesn’t require an immediate presence (my wallet was stolen yesterday) is again likely to be pushed down the priority list. This ensures that when you actually need the Police ASAP, you get them and that should always be the priority.

Another thing Deputy Macon could consider if he wants to help deal with crime in his district is that each parish still has it’s own Honorary Police Force, which with a bit of work could deal with the majority of the issues the residents seem concerned with. How about working on improving his own Parish Force, coming up with away to attract a higher quality of Honorary Officers and dramatically improving training and levels of competency? A more effective Parish Force will allow you to put Police Officers exactly where and when you want them within the Parish and not be as dependant on SOJP, who are a lot of the time stretched very thin cleaning up the streets of St Helier. As another suggestion, any initiatives that would result in the lowering of street crime in St Helier, particularly on Friday and Saturday evenings would instantly free up a number of officers who would then be available to assist elsewhere.

Offline George

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2009, 06:54:59 AM »
There are reasons why the Police take 2 hrs to respond to calls, it because of under manning.  This is mostly due to underfunding.  I look forward to Jeremy proposal in the states to raise taxes so that we can have the fully funded public services this island richly deserves.  Positive action and not scaremongering.

rogueelement

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2009, 07:24:08 AM »
Our Police underfunded?? you must be joking!


Offline Nellie Macon

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2009, 08:36:51 AM »
CPCarrot - now this is the sort of comment we need - constructive suggestions. I'm going to tell the guys to take a look at this - now that you've all started coming up with practical solutions I'm sure you'll come up with even more of them.

This is the whole reason why I bother with these blogs - of course I like to put my point across (don't we all?) and I like to share any knowledge I have with anyone who is interested but most of all I really believe that as there are so many people out there who are brilliant at coming up with excellent ideas, if we cut out the sniping we could do great things for this Island (all that would be necessary then of course would be to vote in enough decent States Members to start implementing the changes).

Since we have 6 adults at home, when we have meals together we discuss all sorts of things, particularly current affairs and Jersey politics and start looking for solutions - we then go off and discuss these with our friends, relatives and colleagues and start refining the proposed solutions until we get something that is practical, fair and acceptable to most people. This is where I get my material for the information I produce and I believe it's democracy in action. It's not perfect and not everyone will agree with our conclusions but it's a good starting point for other people to jump in with refinements. The whole point is to discuss and take on board what other people are saying, their experiences and the snags and flaws they can see in whatever is being suggested. I'm constantly amazed at how clever people in Jersey are - we have such a wealth of knowledge and commonsense right here in the Island, it's criminal that we don't draw on it (and it's free!).



Offline Fritz

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2009, 01:42:00 PM »
Do you ever let Jeremy play with the computer?

Offline moot

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2009, 02:05:02 PM »
Do you ever let Jeremy play with the computer?

In all seriousness Nellie. While we appreciate your views here on PJ we would love to see your son on PJ as he is after all the one in government
I am sure we would be tough on him but not insulting or anything like that
It will be very good for him. Why doesn't he join ?

Offline Fritz

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2009, 02:36:25 PM »
I was being serious.

Offline Ruddler

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2009, 02:55:24 PM »
Saw Jezza in the House this week, seemed a ? for the sake of it (hi it's me, over here on the Deputies benches......), unless St. Sav No 1 is a hotbed of criminality?!  Thought the reply was illuminating though - our burglary crime is largely yoof and/or drugs related and a recession probably won't make much difference.

Thought his vote in the incinerator debate was daft - at least Tracey Valois listened to the argument and eventually wasn't prepared to vote to chuck away our cash, notwithstanding her manifesto statement.  I thought that showed some maturity and a willingness to be persuaded.  So far, Jeremy seems to be happy enough to hunker below the opposition for the sake of it parapet on anything controversial.  Early days I guess but he doesn't persuade me yet (so what the Macon family might think!)

Offline Pomme de terre

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Re: Jeremy is worried about burglary in the island
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2009, 06:25:27 PM »
Thought his vote in the incinerator debate was daft - at least Tracey Valois listened to the argument and eventually wasn't prepared to vote to chuck away our cash, notwithstanding her manifesto statement.  I thought that showed some maturity and a willingness to be persuaded. 

Nah, that won't wash with me. She grandstand-ed on the incinerator when it was a done deal, the flip-flopped when she had to put her promises into practice.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 05:42:23 AM by Pomme de terre »