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Author Topic: Name and shame young offenders?  (Read 3013 times)

Offline Calimachon

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2009, 09:18:04 AM »
Can we revisit this issue in light of the Talkback programme on the local radio and any upcoming debate in the States.

I am interested to know what the situation is in Jersey with regard to the Human Rights of Children regarding this issue and also to find out if  Jersey has followed the UK  and fully ratified any agreements and adopted, in full, any Protocols (within the The Council of Europe) or Articles (within the UN Convention) relating thereto.

https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1460021&Site=COE&BackColorInternet=DBDCF2&BackColorIntranet=FDC864&BackColorLogged=FDC864

http://www.unicef.org/crc/

and a quote from this one:

https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1460021&Site=COE&BackColorInternet=DBDCF2&BackColorIntranet=FDC864&BackColorLogged=FDC864#P178_31175

'The media play a pivotal role in underpinning public perceptions of youth crime. Efforts must be made to depoliticise the juvenile justice process, in order to ensure that it is the result of impartial, evidence-based decision-making and not subject to the changeable influence of the media or political opinion.'

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/ParentsRights/DG_4003313

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200203/jtselect/jtrights/187/18702.htm

http://www.amnestyusa.org/human-rights/universal-declaration-of-human-rights/page.do?id=1031003

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=1893

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200203/jtselect/jtrights/187/18704.htm#a2

« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 09:23:23 AM by Calimachon »
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"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)

The Backbencher

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2009, 05:22:02 PM »
Apparently this proposal was well hammered with only Mr and Mrs Pitman voting in favour of it....
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rogueelement

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2009, 06:25:59 PM »
In this section , would it be at all fair to name and shame Macon and Tadier for being crap at their jobs?
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The Backbencher

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2009, 06:33:02 PM »
Tadier is establishment now.  Macon is just a bum on a seat.
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The Backbencher

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2009, 07:10:21 PM »
Besides I thought there was a group of just over a dozen anti-establshment states members who were voting on mass or have they turned against Pitman for bum licking syvret on Tuesday I wonder?
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rogueelement

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2009, 07:18:09 PM »
Thats no way to guarantee a job as a director on WEB!
I am surprised that the loony ,,,,well ,,, its not left is it ,, its a sort of sacharine squeegee mop of political detritus, have no ambition to move on , today the Health committee , tomorrow the Treasury , though what the hell they would do if they actually ever took control would be funny.
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Offline imacrappaud

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2009, 08:24:05 PM »
I am all for human rights when it brings together race, religion etc into having respect for one another but frankly I would love to hear from a human rights activist who has had their "human rights" breached by a burglar as example and were unable to defend themselves incase they breahed the purpetrators "human rights".

I do note Cali that your point was childrens human rights so in that instance what are your thoughts on the granny who was in trouble with the law for poking a youth in the chest despite that youth being part of a gang that had repeatedly abused her human rights, that of just living. Whilst I think of it what is your opinion on the bloke who shot an intruder and got sentenced to prison for shooting the intruder/burgler.

Sorry to be a git, but I am sick of human rights because they are constantly turned around in favour of the bad guy/girl by money making lawyers who thrive on the so called human rights laws.
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Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2009, 07:03:01 PM »
When the Human Rights was written up and came into being the world was a different place then and nobody could fore see how the future was going to turn out like it has. There is talk that the powers of b will sit down and rewrite the Human Rights Laws, which would look at the injured and not the person committing the crime. IE you defend yourself against a burglar and injure him he cannot claim damages from you. I have to say that it is about time that they did sit down and get on with it.
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rogueelement

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2009, 07:16:25 PM »
Fantastic call CB!
And if ever Jersey elects to produce anything going along the human rights route they will cleave a path straight to your door for better information! and even though they have come up with this in Brussels 200 years ago , to absolve them of doing any meaningfull work and to enure their total neutrality in the event of any war, or at the very least wave  a white flag ,just before Paris caved in or the Italians agreed to  capitulate to anyone wearing a darker brown suit than them, with perhaps a sharper crease!
I can always tell that CB has his fingure on the pulse in these matters , I think a better option to naming and shaming the little shites should be an option to have the living sh1t kicked out of them, subject of course to their agreement and the suitable protocols being passed by the States.
anyone have any idea why the current children (sorry youths of votable age , but not old enough to be named and shamed) are such feckin shite? (please do not give me your wishy washy , tree hugging, awww the poor little things , they need help bollix)
they need discipline and they are not getting it from their parents , their schools or the state.
I Truly despair that i cannot help out by beating the crap out of a few of them, my reputation you know.
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Offline Fritz

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2009, 07:46:28 PM »
Introduce, "Citizens Slap".

Simple.
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Offline Calimachon

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2009, 09:27:15 PM »
Quote from: imacrappaud on December 03, 2009, 08:24:05 PM
I am all for human rights when it brings together race, religion etc into having respect for one another but frankly I would love to hear from a human rights activist who has had their "human rights" breached by a burglar as example and were unable to defend themselves incase they breahed the purpetrators "human rights".

I do note Cali that your point was childrens human rights so in that instance what are your thoughts on the granny who was in trouble with the law for poking a youth in the chest despite that youth being part of a gang that had repeatedly abused her human rights, that of just living. Whilst I think of it what is your opinion on the bloke who shot an intruder and got sentenced to prison for shooting the intruder/burgler.

Sorry to be a git, but I am sick of human rights because they are constantly turned around in favour of the bad guy/girl by money making lawyers who thrive on the so called human rights laws.

I know exactly where you are coming from as my family have suffered as a result of Human Rights leglislation. 

It is the way that these laws are  interpreted and the manner in which they are used that is all important.  There are Protocols, Articles and codes of practice for all divisions of the Human Rights Laws and if the people who carry out these missives are honest, decent and  have the true spirit of the Human Rights legislation at heart we should not have anything to worry from it.  But we all know and have met the 'odd' member of the judiciary who like to bend and twist things to get the result they desire.  So it is the more clever or should I say devious that are rewarded with the piles of notes.

When people are defending themselves and their property I do feel that the bias towards the alleged criminal is not a good bias, so the two cases you refer to appear to be that of defence of person or property and should not have been twisted to allow the innocent party to be charged with anything.  If the alleged criminal had not been carrying out the crime he would not have had the injury! 



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"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2009, 12:16:57 AM »
Children or should i say youths at the age of 9 years old know the difference between right and wrong even when they are egged on by older youths they still no it is wrong. They know by damaging a car with a sharp instrument is against the law.You must make a punishment to fit the crime to try to get them to realize that it does not pay to do the wrong thing in breaking the laws. I strongly agree with naming them at 16 because we have all heard that they can vote, ride a motor bike and join the armed services, so in that case they should be named. You well then find that parents well stop their children going around with the trouble makers. There will always be a section of youths that well never conform to the laws which is sad really but that is life.
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Offline newmac

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2009, 12:46:26 AM »
It was a vote he was never going to win, but it did raise issues that need to be discussed and acted on, not we're talking about doing such and such but we need to spend a couple more thousand grand on consultants.

Also listening to the debate it showed how many members either hadn't read the proposition or didn't have a clue as 80/90% of the debate was taken up with things that were not relevant.

I wonder how many members that voted to give 16 year olds the vote and the right to have homosexual sex claimed that at 16 they were not mature enough to be held responsible for serious crimes >:(
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Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2009, 01:09:46 PM »
Yea that is spot on there Newmac.
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The Backbencher

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Re: Name and shame young offenders?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2009, 04:07:28 PM »
It was never going to win because it was far to controversial as there was no proper data as to whether such a scheme had worked elsewhere which I think Deputy Martin rightly raised.  When Mr Pitman first brought this subject, apart from thinking it was another daft proposal from the JDA, I thought of the Jamie Bulger murderers and the problems it had caused since they had been named.  It has cost the UK tax payer millions because after growing up they have had to be re-located and given false identities, so from naming them and showing their photos it created a complete new set of problems.

The only way they can do something to deter young people from offending is to fine the parents or legal guardians, it should soon put the breaks on it.
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