Collective Bargaining

[Goreyman]

I listened to the debate yesterday and throughout thought it was going to be a close call until Shona Pitman did her summing up.
She is not new to the States and has brought many propositions previously. He summing up was so amateurish that I would not be surprised if some voted against her solely for her inability to reply to statements made by other members. Her boss Geoff had spent 20 minutes going on about this was not about wage rises; Dep Green had asked for a vote on parts a) the money and b) return negotiations to be separate. Good old Shona said no they must be taken together because it was all about the workers getting paid more. Con Gallichan even had to ask her to explain that she meant what she was saying, Geoff had left the room but must have been cringing when he heard of the dogs dinner she had made of summing up. She admitted that the union Unite donate money to the JDA; if I was a Unite member I would be asking for my money back.

So what next? I really think this is an indication of the mentality of some of the union members (especially the one who wants us to "Negociate") and that they will blindly follow their "leaders" and "representatives" irrespective of their abilities to fight their cause.

The majority of people I know have either lost their job, taken a wage cut and/or had their hours reduced in the last 12 months. Why should we have to pay extra GST to fund pay rises for States workers when we are not the same. In a time of recession strikes are not welcome and only go to drive a wedge between their cause and public opinion, take the Royal Mail strike as example. Fine, work to rule at least then we might get a full days work out of some of these States workers. And yes refuse to do overtime; no more spinning out a job to make sure of double time when in reality the job could have been done in the hours allocated.

Just one last thing, Shona Pitman's argument was based on how bad conditions were for nursed - well you got the $1million to sort that out so get with it and write speeches that are not weeks out of date.

A message to the rest of the JDA, if you do not want to be tarred with the same brush as incompetent at writing speeches and responding after debates don't let Shona lose again!

[Dundee]

The same could be said of her appearance on the radio the other Sunday, I appreciate public speaking is not an easy task, but you do not go shouting your mouth of on a subject when you have little or no knowledge of it.
She has the gall to criticise the Bailiff and what right he has to undertake his position, I would ask what qualifies her make to such drastic suggestions.

[Ruddler]

Thank goodness for that post Goreyman, I thought it was just me.  I agree that she lost the vote on the summing up, it was truly atrocious, even by her pretty dismal standards, wittering on about her degree in conflict resolution - woeful.  "I speak your weight" doesn't even come in to it.

My other half is a "public servant" and guess what?  No-one from the union she subscribes ever increasing amounts of her hard earned salary has bothered to ask or even call a meeting to see what she thinks, although Corbellosauras Rex (how much is he on?  Is he getting a pay rise this year?) is quite happy to tell all and sundry she is "angry", "demoralised" and er "in a militant frame of mind"!  Hey Nick, try calling a vote and see how you go on.  As a worker who earns his crust other than from the taxpayers largesse, I am (i) sorry for significant other that a pay freeze is going to be imposed (ii) even more sorry for the 14 friends of ours made redundant in the last 10 months from private sector jobs (especially the 4 who've left the island hoping to find work elsewhere) (iii) as a taxpayer am satisfied that the States Assembly is holding the line on this one and (iv) happy to still be in work after the last few months.

The States are good at taking the easy (spending) decisions (£10million on a bonkers park, £500k here there and everywhere for pet projects, usually ones which will ensure they'll get a few more votes next time round) but usually like to put off hard decisions but on this occasion they've got it about right (except the PR - apparently a lot were informed in an e-mail "cascaded" down to them headed "FYI")!  Some of their management need a rocket!

Here endeth the epistle...........

[Pomme de terre]

Five star post Ruddler!

[Chevalier Blanc]

Goreyman it is not the manual worker that takes time over jobs but the manager who does not know the job that he is in charge of and that is the reason. There are to many managers under managers who are not qualified for the position they hold. The manual worker has been cut to the bone over the last 12 years while the civil servants have gone up in numbers. What about the fact that their are more civil servants employed by the Harbour Office than the Housing Dept. how crazy is that. At one time there was the Harbour Master and Deputy Harbour Master along with 2 other civil servants and a manual work force of 165 which had 2 managers. Today there is 5 managers for the manual worker and up to 15 in the Harbour Office. Now who does the work? The manual worker has to do overtime to get jobs done in time. Sometimes they do a job 3 times because the manager has told them to do it in such away that was wrong but will not listen to the worker. So please do not slag off the manual workers that includes the technicians as well when they have rotten managers and H&S rules to work to. Remember the States make the laws on H&S so they have to abide by the rules etc but private firms cut corners in that department, the States have to been seen to carry out the rules. How many times have you seen a man using very noisy equipment and wearing no safety gear, the States make it a warning to employee that they must use the safety equipment even when it takes longer to do the job. Please take note and fire your bullets on the right target.

[Goreyman]

"Methinks the white horse doth protest too much"

I say what I see and what I hear from colleagues in the H&S industry who have the pleasure of visiting States and Private sites all the time; and yes I do know Bill Dark.

[boatyboy]

Treasury Minister Phillip Ozouf and his COM and supporters and Deputy Shona Pitman and the JDA alliance have one thing very much in common.

They are both in denial.

Phillip Ozouf made it clear after the pay freeze debate on a CTV live interview, that we either freeze wages otherwise cut services or tax more.

What is incredible is that the number employed by the public sector has in real terms risen by nineteen new staff this year, over last year, four new posts in the chief ministers department alone.

They just don't get it do they ?

I have some sympathy with front line workers, but the level upon level of management needs time and motion experts  to confirm or deny that managers overstaff many departments or work duplication is in existence.

Furthermore is a person being employed to do work that is not relevant to Governments responsibilities? The TTS installing miles stones that mean nothing unless your interested in history and the distance to a statue in the royal square as an example.Then and only after review should an increase in taxes or a cut in services be debated.

Minister for the Treasury Ozouf is In denial, by not facing the overstaffing issues, in fact adding to the problem.

Shona Pitman is in complete denial saying that the hard working; states workers desperately need a wage increase as the pound in the pocket buys less. It’s the same for the private sector workers who fund the States workers and in many cases earn a lot less, and no increased pension or overtime.

However she or her party should look at efficiencies, staffing levels or savings which would serve her number one priority ( or should be ) the general population that elected her. Had Deputy Pitman's proposition been carried, (2% increase ) with a Jersey wage bill now standing at over £301 million we now have to find another £6 million a year so up goes GST or stealth taxes to keep States workers happy but paid for by the majority.

In denial deputy Pitman.

While I am here, can I also ask why CM Terry Le Suer ( Mr Tax and Spend ) gave Mr Izatt chief executive of WEB a £30,000 non productivity bonus a few months back ? I would have thought remuneration of almost a quarter of a million pounds for a job in a non competitive position more than enough.

What has to be the best example of shooting your legs off, rather than just shooting yourself in the foot is giving yourself a £1,000 pound increase in wages? This has the effect of putting politicians in the category of those who insist that you do what I say not what I do. Not a good way to earn respect. In fact pretty poor Government.

Boatyboy.

[Fritz]

The measly £1,000 rise will only compensate them for having to buy their own sarnies.
So states members are actually leading by example on the pay freeze.
They could now give themselves another rise and agree to pay for parking.

[imacrappaud]

Normal human being: I can do the same job as a part time employee
States member: Yes you can, but in ten years time we might be busy
Normal human being: Thats fine, if its that bad i will do an extra 2 hours per week
States member:Oh no we cant have that if we lose your half day doing nothing we need to gain an extra member of staff who will do nothing but only 3 times a week
Normal human being: Ok sounds good to me but what do i do for the rest of the week?
States member: Nothing my son because you have got yourself a job for life

[SSVOR]

Isn't the problem that "free collective bargaining" is translated by the unions as " the right to negotiate just how much more we'll get this year" ?

"Free collective bargaining" isn't based on an assumption of a pay increase, or decrease, or standstill. It simply allows democratically selected representatives to have formal discussions with the employers on behalf of a workforce.

If an employer decides its workforce will have to face a reduction in pay, or hours, or that overtime must be drastically reduced, under "free collective bargaining" their union would seek to reduce the negative effects on their membership and would think they had scored a famous victory if they managed to maintain the status quo as far as pay and overtime are concerned.

Nobody has a right to an automatic annual pay increase and they never have. Perhaps the States workers representatives should look at the situation in the private sector, where redundancies and actual real reductions in pay are by no means unusual these days.

Perhaps if the SEB had been  a bit more subtle and a bit less honest and instead of saying - "Sorry there's no money, so no pay-rise"  had started at " We're going to have to reduce the States wages bill by 2%, so let's talk about whether we do that through redundancies, or a reduction in hours, or a simple reduction in pay-scales etc"  We would still have had outrage and demos in the  Royal Square, but when the SEB "caved-in" and agreed that there would be no real reductions this year, Mr. Corbell would have been hailed as a saviour and nobody would even have thought about a pay-rise.