Author Topic: Very Boring blog  (Read 10727 times)

rogueelement

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #90 on: September 08, 2010, 06:53:34 AM »
Agreed!
unless they are a kent .

Offline mod5

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2010, 09:11:08 AM »

Now of course Mod 5 , you are saying that it is fair enough to "out" people in here , even if it is against the rules so long as it makes interesting reading?

Oh God, moderation teduim overload. Reaches for a marlborough light....click's the zippo.....deep inhale

At the risk of repeating myself ad infinitum - It is not within the rules to out people on this forum. That is why I deleted your name and made RK aware of the situation.  If you choose to out yourself - well that's an entirely different story and a decision for you alone.

I'm locking this thread for 24 hours as its strayed way off topic. People you need to stop the bitching. When its re-opened perhaps you'll all have cooled off and start talking about the pro's or cons of the Farce Blog without the personal insults.

Offline mod5

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2010, 09:13:30 PM »
Knock yourselves out, fill your boots, the thread's unlocked!

Offline tonytheprof

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2010, 06:40:21 AM »
There's some extremely nasty stuff going on at the moment with the HDLG Farce blog, much of which is widely contradictory. In short:

1) the current post is a direct personal attack on Carolyn Labey as a kind of colloborator with Stuart Syvret because he was based at her house as her partner when he was writing his blog.

2) a number of the comments let through (and therefore accepted by the moderators of the blog - and by the same argument "enabled by them") are indulging in identity theft. Postings are made pretending to be real people, mostly Stuart Syvret supporters, posting comments critical of Stuart. Initially, some of these used variations on a name to suggest it wasn't the same person; now they don't bother.

3) with a lady called Zoompad, the situation has gone further. There is a clear case of identity theft. A posting has been made (edited for language by me), which has her picture, and a blog link (by clicking on the picture):

Zoompad said...
Dear all

I have to apologise for all the awful things I have said about your great blog. I was, just like, Rico, Ian, Neil, Carrie, Carolyn and Rob, lost until Stuart came into our lives, but he has just used us and we all hate him for it. The fool is also in court this afternoon and I hope they send him to Hell because he is a b****d. May god be with you Gazza and the other great writers on this blog. Zoompad x


However, this links to a hidden profile, whereas her real profile is available on linking to a genuine posting by her.

This is a clear case of identity theft. It is not clear whether the blog owners are responsible, but they are certainly culpable of allowing false postings under real people's names (easy to do on a blog) and thereby encouraging this kind of identity theft. Sooner or later, someone was bound to overstep the mark.

This is endorsed by further comments on the site:

She reckons her avatar is personal to her and cannot be used by anybody else on the WWW. Well sorry once you release something onto the WWW it becomes public, just like a photo on facebook so if somebody else uses it there is absolutly nothing you can do about it. Check out the compliance websites, they use photos from facebook all the time so if you don't want your face known don't put it on the WWW. If on the other hand somebody uses a real photo of you to commit fraud then thats a different matter.

There are a further three posts, all by someone imitating Zoompad. While it is true that false identities can be created either on here or facebook or elsewhere, actually most terms and conditions have a clause that reads:

Use any part of the Services to create a false identity, to impersonate any person or organisation, or attempt to disguise the origin of any Content


Google itself has

Impersonation: We do not allow impersonation of others through our services in a manner that is intended to or does mislead or confuse others.


And while it is true that fraud is not being done, Google takes a dim view of this kind of activity, as seen in a report on impersonations of singer Steven Tyler:

Although impersonation blogging isn't the same as stealing money from one's bank account, the general premise is still an identity theft of sorts with the false representation of ones identity, claiming to be a famous person when they really are not. Google has temporarily suspended the blogs and posted the following statements: "This blog is under review due to possible Blogger terms of service violations."


I'm not saying the blog owners are responsible, because this occurs in the comments, but it is a worrying trend which they are permitting, and a new and unpleasant phenomena in Jersey - a new kind of nastiness - not just malicious comment (which sadly there is all too much) - but playing malicious games with people's identities.

Even if comments on other blogs - such as Stuart's - vilify officials in various ways - they do so either as anonymous, or as their own name/avatar, and not purporting to be someone else.

They need to state a robust terms of comment policy and certainly check out any false profiles.



Offline imacrappaud

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2010, 03:43:35 PM »
Maybe it is the same dick who puts messages on the ChannelTV and ThisisJersey have your say bits under Rico, Neil etc.

Don't know who it is or if there are more than one, who they are, I don't really care but I do find it funny when a news item is put up on one of the websites about a states member or something that is not what the above people would agree on then as soon as the comments appear then there are the usual B.S. comments from the supposed above people completely contradicting their views.

Offline Rob Kent

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2010, 05:38:45 PM »
@Tony,
Quote
There's some extremely nasty stuff going on at the moment with the HDLG Farce blog

At the moment? It's always been like that. And why does that surprise you? Its whole raison d'etre is to undermine the child abuse investigation and to denigrate the survivors of abuse. It has no other purpose.

Being unable to achieve that on a factual basis - because up until now nobody has produced any evidence that contradicts that of Graham Power and the original investigation (unless you are the kind of person that believes that children used to have baths in a 'floor void'), they have no other recourse but to sling insults and personally denigrate anyone who they see as not being on side with them.

It's quite an achievement really, since it has managed to plumb a depth of malevolence that was never reached on Stuart Syvret's blog even in its worst hour.

I met Zoompad in London. She's a kind and lovely woman. She suffered horrendous abuse as a child in the pin-down regime in Staffordshire. She's a brave survivor and good mother trying to make the world a better place. The people on that blog who abuse and insult her are not even worthy of the appellation 'human'. They are below contempt and are allied with those who denigrated the HdlG abuse survivors for being 'mentally unstable' and unreliable characters. Like you could survive that kind of abuse without being damaged in some way.

Jersey should hang its collective head in shame for even giving home to such people. But I am sure that they are all respectable members of the community. Of course, that will be revealed before too long.

Offline GeeGee

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2010, 08:48:19 PM »
You are so very right Rob. This blog has always been nasty and vindictive, and stoops to new lows every day.

If its primary purpose was to discount any proof of murders at Haut de la Garenne I would suggest they read this part of a comment from Lenny Harper posted yesterday on Voice for Children

'I (contrary to the untrue assertion by Gradwell and the sensitive Mr Warcup)never at any time said children had been murdered at the home'.

They dare to suggest that because you or Zoompad do not live in Jersey it is none of your business. What a shallow and blinkered attitude. The attacks on Zoompad and Carolyn Labey  have been disgraceful, and in Zoompad's instance all the more so given that she herself is an abuse survivor fighting for others also.

You say you imagine they are all respectable members of the community. Perhaps you would have been more correct saying they like to THINK they are respectable members of the community, but there ain't nothing respectable in their bile.

Oh well, you know what they say - where there's no sense there is no feeling.

Offline iruka

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #97 on: September 11, 2010, 06:50:52 AM »
You are so very right Rob. This blog has always been nasty and vindictive, and stoops to new lows every day.

If its primary purpose was to discount any proof of murders at Haut de la Garenne I would suggest they read this part of a comment from Lenny Harper posted yesterday on Voice for Children

'I (contrary to the untrue assertion by Gradwell and the sensitive Mr Warcup)never at any time said children had been murdered at the home'.


It would appear he didn't use those exact words. He certainly repeated "We don't know yet that this is a murder, and we don't know yet if this is the only remains that we're going to find in there". (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7260625.stm)

However, he gave that impression, whether deliberately or accidentally, and the media seized on that, no doubt encouraged by Syvret.

This post on Syvret's blog, 5 Sept 2009, allegedly by Harper says,

"I keep seeing criticism of our actions which mention that there were no bodies and no reports of children missing. I have dealt with the findings of the human remains above. In respect of no reports of children missing there are a number of things to be considered. Firstly, children were brought casually to HDLG and sometimes no one even knew they were there. Records of missing persons were only held until comparatively recently by the parishes. Unlike in the UK, the professional police had no involvement. Also, children arrived from the UK without proper records being kept anywhere. One example was the Local Authority in the West Midlands area of the UK who contacted us to say they had sent six children to the island’s care system and had lost touch with them, never hearing of them again."

Earlier in that post he talks of his experience in investigating murders - why would he do that?

"As for Mr. Gradwell, again I do not know a lot about him. He is fond of telling people, including one of the journalists I mentioned above, that he is known for investigating the tragic incident when foreign workers drowned on a beach. I believe that manslaughter convictions resulted for some of the people connected with the employment of these unfortunate victims. This must have been a very challenging enquiry for him. I am pretty sure also that he must have investigated some more conventional manslaughters and murders - where the suspects were not known. I cannot speak for him, only myself. I know that I have a number of commendations for “detective ability,” leadership, and other professional skills earned in the investigation of many murders including terrorist murders, gang murders, stabbing murders with multi victims, domestic murders, and huge experience gained in South London in the investigation of Rapes and Child Abuse."

Draw your own conclusions.

During that posting he is at pains to says that there is no record of him saying it was murder. "A large number of journalists from television, radio, and print contacted me on the day of the Gradwell/Warcup press conference, to ask what on earth they were talking about. They all said they had checked their records and I had never said that there was evidence of murder. "

The later "clarification" by the BBC of their reporting is also interesting as they seem to start to distance themselves from their role in fanning the flames of rumour.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7727597.stm

You decide - were his comments naive, calculated or careless? He had on other occasions defended his publicity strategy as bringing forward more allegations. Was his intention to flush out "witnesses"? Did it backfire? And as a result who suffered? Is it any wonder that people are feeling vindictive?


Offline Rob Kent

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #98 on: September 11, 2010, 09:33:23 AM »
@Iruka,
Quote
Earlier in that post he talks of his experience in investigating murders - why would he do that?

Why would he do that? Because he was not at that point dealing with why they dug up HdlG or why the emotive term 'partial remains of a child' was used to refer to the bone fragments and teeth (I'll deal with that below). No he was defending himself against an attack by the incoming team on his character, abilities, judgement, and professional experience. Remember, Warcup, Gradwell, SOJ members, and JEP leader writers were not just saying that he chose his words badly at the time of the HdlG excavations: they were saying he was an incompetent clown who should never have been given the job in the first place. Gradwell said of him, "the best I can say about Mr. Harper is that he is a man who has difficulty in understanding basic facts."

So Lenny Harper begins that article (more than a year after the events) by dealing with the allegation that he was not professionally competent and lacked appropriate experience for handling a large and complex investigation such as HdlG. In particular, he is defending himself against the particular allegation that he was ill-equipped to deal with what, on the basis of many witness statements from victims and others, was beginning to look like a missing persons investigation. So when he talks about his track record for murder investigations in September 2009 he is merely responding to the criticism that he was not qualified to be in charge of the HdlG investigation.

It is totally wrong to retrospectively project this on to what happened in February 2008 as if he had said it then. I mean, if he had walked out before the press in Feb 2008 and said, "I have a lot of experience in murder investigations - I am the right man for this job," you would be correct to infer that he was fanning the flames and stoking up the the press's appetite for a big murder investigation. But he didn't.

Before I go on to discuss his use of words and his 'press strategy', there is one really important point that everyone - critics and supporters and inbetweenies - needs to answer in their own mind: were the police right to do the excavation of HdlG? Because if you believe they were right, then the responsibility for the story spinning out of control becomes extremely difficult to lay solely in Lenny's hands or mouth.

So, do you think they were right to carry out the dig? Well I am, like you, I suspect, not an expert in police methods and decision-making. I can only go on the explanations given by Lenny Harper in various places, and on the fact that these decisions are never taken by one person alone - they are taken by teams and involve superiors and probably (I'm guessing) professional standards bodies such as ACPO. I mean, I don't suppose that Lenny Harper came into the office one morning, put his feet up on the desk, started paring his fingernails, and said to himself, "I know what I'll do this week. I will put together a team of several dozen experts from different fields, hire contractors, sniffer-dog handlers, extra police resources from the UK, and I'll dig up the grounds and cellars of HdlG."

No, I don't believe that is how it went down. I believe what Lenny says: they had multiple reports from different victims covering an extended time span of children disappearing. Multiple victims said that other children were dragged from their beds at night and never seen again. In addition to this there were other weird stories from builders who were asked to dig 'lime pits' on a Friday that were mysteriously filled in over the weekend and were covered over when they returned on the Monday. Remember these lime pits were later found.

So, for me alone, on the balance of evidence from what I have heard and knowing that a decision like that would not have been an individual one, my belief is that the police had no choice but to proceed with the excavation.

Now you and others may disagree with me on this, and in fact, Gradwell and Warcup disagree with me on this. They also disagree with Harper and Power on this, so it is not as if I am the big target. They also disagree with ACPO who oversaw and totally supported the HdlG investigation, including the excavations. So there is scope for disagreement but I am going with ACPO and the original police team.

As soon as you have an excavation like that, whether the police find anything or not, the press are all over it. There is no question about this. We see it all the time on the news. Recently in Brighton police closed off parts of two roads and totally excavated the grounds and cellars of two houses that Peter Tobin had once lived in. We had Sky helicopters overhead, cameras from the press posted outside 24 hours a day and so on. The police had to come out every day and discuss what they were doing and whether or not they had found anything. They found nothing. But if they had found several bone fragments and teeth (which may have been there from Victorian times), the story would have been even bigger than it was. As it was, it was on the main news - lunch and evening - every day for over a week. And they found exactly nothing.

What I am saying is: once the HdlG dig began, especially in the context of a long-running child abuse investigation, Jersey was in for blanket, 24-hour news, rolling bad publicity. Nothing to do with Lenny Harper's press conferences or choice of words - just the pure fact that the dig was taking place.

When the forensic archaeologists started reporting to the police that they had found human remains - a child's tibia, teeth, and other fragments of bones, what do you think the police should have done? Kept quiet about it? The UK press always find out everything when they put big resources into a story - that is an axiom. They are indefatigable. They pay informers in the police, they tap phones, they get their story. There is no way they were not going to find out that human remains had been found. And there is no way they were not going to draw their own conclusions (probably wrong ones) from that fact.

But here is where you have a valid point - did Lenny Harper go public in such a way to give the investigation so much prominence it could not be closed down by senior politicians and civil servants? I think that his answer to that has been, 'yes', on a number of occasions. And why? Because he is on record as saying that they were under great political pressure to ring-fence the investigation and limit its extent. Graham Power was present at the meeting back in 2007 where Bill Ogley said, "This could bring down the government." He was present at the meeting where the 'government within the government' colluded to remove Senator Syvret from office because he was asking embarrassing but legitimate questions about child protection issues.

The police were feeling the pressure from the AG's office who wanted to assign a lawyer inside the investigation team. They were experiencing obstructing delays in their requests to the AG's office to consider evidence against people they wanted to charge. And when they had more than enough evidence to charge certain people, they were told not to charge them by the AG's office; when they countermanded the AG's demands and went ahead and charged anyway (Wateridge), the person was found guilty, dead to rights, and imprisoned.

How do you feel that the AG told the police not charge a man who was patently guilty and later convicted? How many other people did they let off, and why? If Lenny Harper had not ignored the AG's demands, Wateridge - a  paedophile and multiple abuser of multiple children - would still be walking the streets of St Helier. Are there any other Wateridges still walking around Jersey as a result of wrong and unsettling decisions by the AG's office, not to say because the whole investigation was closed down? Yes, I know it is apparently still running but all of the people brought to court so far all result from the original team's investigation - there has been no-one new charged on the basis of subsequent investigations, so far as I know.

Given that context, Lenny's press strategy may have been the correct one. Knowing that senior politicians and others wanted to close the whole thing down or at least limit it to a few minor, soft targets, such as the wardens, Lenny may have put it out into the open in a way that would give it maximum publicity and could not be easily dispensed with. You'd have to ask him that exact question.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Maybe he chose his words carefully, or maybe they were unwise, but if anyone thinks that Jersey did not have a massive scandal on its hands that was 'bad for the image of the island', they are in denial of the facts. A long running child abuse investigation involving several States-run institutions; the removal from office of a senior politician; an excavation in a former children's home that was part of the abuse investigation; the discovery of human bone fragments. If Lenny Harper had not even been present in the investigation, Jersey would still have been front page news around the world.

So how else could they have done it? I think you need to look back in time to see a good a precedent: they didn't do it. Children were being abused in States of Jersey institutions - although horrible, this is not unique to Jersey and not specially shaming. It was the same as many other institutional abuse cases, from Kincorra, Wales, Northumbria, Islington, Casa Pia in Portugal, the Catholic church, public schools - just about everywhere adults have power over children and are shielded by institutional power structures from outside observation.

So Jersey is not unique in this. But prior to the Harper and Power investigation, the voices of the victims were not listened to: they were simply not believed. Children who were being abused and tried to report it to officials, the police or other adults, were not only ignored - they were ridiculed and sent back to the care of their abusers. Sometimes they were even told that if they carried on repeating their accusations, they would be certified as insane and sent to St Saviour's hospital. Children who ran away and tried to escape the island were hunted down and brought back (I know one of them). Nobody in authority - specifically the Jersey police - believed them. They were powerless.

But I would like to qualify the statement that they were not believed. I think they were believed, but nobody wanted to hear what they were saying, so they pretended to be deaf. And you know what I think, there is a large body of people in Jersey - mostly in authority, but also in the general public - who would prefer that deafness to the cries of the children who have been savagely abused and had their life prospects and happiness damaged as a result of what was done to them. I mean people who are now aged fifty and sixty who still wake from nightmares and see their abusers in their dreams.

Can you even imagine that, you comfy, smug bastards on the Farce blog? You abuse deniers. Who are so brave and big that you ridicule, impersonate and take the piss out of a woman who was a victim of incest, sent to a children's home at thirteen where children were being drugged and sexually abused; when she rebelled, she was declared insane and sent to a psychiatric hospital. At thirteen. And you are taking the piss out of her. Nice people.

"But a dungeon like a sin
Requires naught but lockin' in
Of everything that's ever been
Look at her,
Look at him.
That's what's the deal we're dealing in
That's what's the deal we're dealing in
That's what's the deal we're dealing in
That's what's the deal we're dealing in...
The torture never stops."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw05xgp5Gw8

Offline Rob Kent

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #99 on: September 11, 2010, 09:59:13 AM »
Above I said, "Yes, I know it is apparently still running but all of the people brought to court so far all result from the original team's investigation - there has been no-one new charged on the basis of subsequent investigations, so far as I know."

I have since heard from Lorna on the VFC blog that the investigation is very much alive, which is good news. Although up until now, all the people charged result from the work of the original team.

Offline iruka

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #100 on: September 12, 2010, 06:36:08 AM »
So, do you think they were right to carry out the dig? Well I am, like you, I suspect, not an expert in police methods and decision-making.

Is that so? You know that for sure do you?

Quote
What I am saying is: once the HdlG dig began, especially in the context of a long-running child abuse investigation, Jersey was in for blanket, 24-hour news, rolling bad publicity. Nothing to do with Lenny Harper's press conferences or choice of words - just the pure fact that the dig was taking place.

Quote
Before I go on to discuss his use of words and his 'press strategy', there is one really important point that everyone - critics and supporters and inbetweenies - needs to answer in their own mind: were the police right to do the excavation of HdlG? Because if you believe they were right, then the responsibility for the story spinning out of control becomes extremely difficult to lay solely in Lenny's hands or mouth.

I know for a fact that the press were wound up to get to the island BEFORE the announcements of searches etc. Clearly so that he had a nice big audience.

Funny how Wiltshire were not so impressed by his past exploits and ability.

This from the Statement from the Home Affairs Minister:

"Conclusion 1
Mr. Harper should never have been appointed as the Senior Investigating Officer. This is a specialist role and neither Mr. Harper nor Mr. Power had either performed this role or received any training for this role for more than 10 years. "


Conclusions 14, 15, 16 and 17
These four Conclusions all relate to failures on the part of Mr. Power to exercise oversight over the area of media strategy. The failure includes the lack of a proper media strategy and the carrying out of that strategy. It should have been obvious to a Chief Officer of Mr. Power’s experience that once the media became aware that digging was taking place in the vicinity of a children’s home, that wild speculation might arise from the Press. Instead on 23rd February, 2008, Mr. Harper was allowed to make a highly inflammatory and misleading statement about “partials remains of a child”. Mr. Power was present at Haut de la Garenne before the statement was made and they must have discussed what was going to be said. If they did not then he is equally at fault for failing so to do.


Mr. Harper chose to announce to the world’s media that they had found what appears to be potential partial remains of a child. The world’s media very quickly turned that into the find of a child’s body.
Thereafter, Mr. Harper commenced daily briefings during which he fed huge amounts of detail about the search to an eager world media. Those briefings and the underlying failures of press strategy are very heavily criticised in this report and rightly so.


And why was he having dinner with journalists in expensive London restaurants?

Firstly, no thought appears to have been given to the impact on the community in general and past victims of abuse in particular. No thought appears to have been given to the effect on the reputation of this Island and of its people and I have already apologised for that.
Secondly, the nature of the information which was drip fed to the press on a daily basis was such as to give rise to an expectation on the part of past victims of major finds and of very numerous successful prosecutions. I have already apologised today for that.
Thirdly, the provision of detailed information, some of it misleading or exaggerated, had a tendency towards contaminating the evidence of potential witnesses. If, for example, a person had come forward and said that they had been taken through a trapdoor down into a cellar where they had been assaulted in a bath then the finds of such items would tend to give credence to the complaint. However, once Mr. Harper had revealed such matters, the value of the evidence would be reduced by contamination.




Offline Rob Kent

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #101 on: September 12, 2010, 10:28:50 AM »
@Iruka,
Quote
Is that so? You know that for sure do you?

Er, no. If I knew it for sure, I would have written, 'I know for sure you are not an expert...'.

Regarding the Wiltshire report, firstly I haven't read the report; I haven't even read the highly selective, tendentious, redacted copy released by ILM. Secondly, ILM's presentation of the conclusions is to me nothing more than spin and back-covering to defend himself and the States against the accusation that Graham Power was wrongfully suspended. A lot of this has been published on the VFC blog so there is no need to go over it, but this interview with Trevor Pitman advances the same line (http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.com/2010/08/wiltshire-police-report-for-media-only.html).

Leaving aside for the moment the criticism that neither Harper or Power were up to the job, the criticisms of Harper amount to: bad media strategy and profligate use of expenses. I stand by what I said in my earlier post that regardless of Harper's wording, the media consequences would have been exactly the same.

Quote
I know for a fact that the press were wound up to get to the island BEFORE the announcements of searches etc. Clearly so that he had a nice big audience.

Writing in the passive mode allows you to make an accusation without stating who the agent was. Who are you accusing of doing that? Lenny Harper? It's a long time ago but think that it may have been the JCLA (Carrie?) or someone else who contacted Sky News about the story and asked them to come over.

Expenses? Expensive restaurants? Meeting journalists? The police always do that. Harper has himself answered those criticisms elsewhere. Besides, are you trying to tell me that Harper behaved any differently to standard behaviour in the Jersey Police or in other States departments? I would like to see the entertainment and business expenses for the police in the three years preceding the inquiry (and subsequently), as well as for other States departments. I would also like to see the expenses for Christopher Chapman and everyone involved in Wiltshire and Napier.

You see, we have only heard the prosecution case for all these accusations. The state has used all its power, money, and bureaucratic muscle to present its view of the world. Lenny Harper and Graham Power have been subjected to a trial by media and government spin - neither of them have been given the opportunity to present their defence to an inquiry, to challenge the evidence and give their side of the story. They have had to use blogs to defend themselves.

If, as you say, Harper and Power were not qualified to be doing their jobs (which I find hard to believe, given Power's CV, still available on the SOJP website: http://www.jersey.police.uk/about/chief-bio.html), you have to ask yourself where the buck stops? With the Home Affairs Minister and COM who appointed him? And why didn't anybody say that at the time and hire somebody else to take over?

This question was asked at his first Suspension Review meeting (T. Brain is Graham Power's representative from the Chief Police Officers staff association):

Quote
Dr. T. Brain:
Thank you. If we look at paragraph 1.1 the paragraph reads: "In the normal course of events the Home Affairs Minister will raise and attempt to resolve issues arising which concern the performance, conduct, capability, et cetera, of the Chief Officer on a personal basis. The procedure described in this code will be used only where such efforts to resolve problems arising have failed." The investigation into the children’s home and the investigation into the historic allegations of child abuse have been running for over 2 years. There has therefore been ample opportunity to raise any concerns with Mr. Power. No concerns have been raised by the Home Affairs Minister. No discussion on a personal basis has taken place before 12th November 2008. Of assistance to your deliberations today I would point out that it is open now for such discussions to take place should, of course, Mr. Power be restored to full duty. It is the absence of that discussion which is a material breach of the disciplinary code.

My question is: is ILM suitably qualified to be handling the suspension of Graham Power? Is Warcup any more qualified than Power, since he happens to be doing the same job as him? Is the person currently doing Lenny Harper's job better qualified than Lenny Harper? What has changed?

I wonder if the States' frustration with Harper and Power does not result from the fact that they were not politically controlled. ILM actually stated this before he took his current job - he wanted the police to be subject to political control. I'm not sure that the first consideration of an investigation should be the image and reputation of the island. That would be like saying, 'Yes, I know you have to do your job but please consider what effect this investigation will have on the reputation of Mr OJ Simpson.'

Where did their frustration come from? The first ACPO report advised, "Graham Power should keep a 'safety zone' between politicians and police work, which it said he did."

We all know about the Jersey way. Historically, the 'powers that be' have been mostly able to dictate how they want things, ensuring that it happens their way, and silencing dissenters. Because they suddenly had two 'honest coppers' on their hands who, to their surprise and chagrin, would not join the 'government within the goverment', they had to get rid of them and replace them with more compliant ones. This they did by illegally suspending Graham Power and trying to destroy the reputation of Lenny Harper.

Offline iruka

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #102 on: September 12, 2010, 04:31:14 PM »
Hmmm.. You appear to taking the suggestions I made and extrapolating them all by yourself. Well done  ;)

I do have the knowledge you suggest I don't have; and no, I don't intend to prove it. I don't need to prove it to you or anyone on this forum. I know when I spoke to journalists and what they told me, and when the press conferences were given.

Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, it is NOT appropriate for police officers to entertain gentlemen (or ladies) of the press to dinner - if that happened. Especially not in a case like this.

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Besides, are you trying to tell me that Harper behaved any differently to standard behaviour in the Jersey Police or in other States departments? I would like to see the entertainment and business expenses for the police in the three years preceding the inquiry (and subsequently), as well as for other States departments. I would also like to see the expenses for Christopher Chapman and everyone involved in Wiltshire and Napier.

Oh, that's alright then. "They was all doin' it guv." Is that the "Jersey Way" too then?

And I thought he was SS's Knight on a White Charger.




Offline Rob Kent

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #103 on: September 12, 2010, 07:11:02 PM »
@Iruka,
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I do have the knowledge you suggest I don't have; and no, I don't intend to prove it.

I only 'suspected' - my ignorance was too tenuous to 'suggest' it. So, I do believe you. But who exactly particularly 'invited' Sky News and others to Jersey? I always believed it was a 'supporter' and not Lenny Harper. The problem is, you see, what you are saying is just hearsay and rumour, if you are not prepared to substantiate it or we cannot see evidence in the Wiltshire report. And even then, we would still need to hear the defence case before coming to a conclusion.

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Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, it is NOT appropriate for police officers to entertain gentlemen (or ladies) of the press to dinner - if that happened. Especially not in a case like this.

I agree that is not appropriate, but it seems to be ubiquitous. It appears that the police and press mingle freely, albeit discreetly, a lot of the time and in most jurisdictions. They appear to have a symbiotic relationship. Normally it is the press that are paying the police, but are you saying that in this case it was on Lenny's expenses?

What I was trying to say is that we (the dumb public) have not been furnished with any proof that Lenny's behaviour was egregious or unusual for SOJ police, or any other police force. In 2009 over 1000 Met officers were amnestied for misuse of corporate credit cards (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5998737/Police-amnesty-for-officers-who-misused-credit-cards.html), so it seems that it was rife in that force at least.

My general point is that in any field of affairs you can review just about any complex operation and find problems with it. That is even more the case if you are determined to find flaws in it.

My field is software development. According to industry statistics, over forty percent of software projects are deemed to have failed. By failure they mean they are either late, over budget, fail to meet the original requirements, contain a high number of bugs, or have to be scrapped altogether. I worked on one 23 million pound project that involved 70 developers and was scrapped a year after it was delivered.

Typically, it is difficult to blame any one person for what went wrong. Normally it is a concatenation of circumstances and very complex variables (in both senses of the word) - there are so many moving parts, nobody can really be blamed, but hopefully the IT Director gets sacked, gets a golden handshake, and moves on to a more senior, better-paid job.

I'm obviously a lot worse-informed than you are but... Once the COM, or whoever, decided they didn't like the HdlG investigation, it was not hard to find things wrong with it, simply because it was a long, complex investigation.

The main accusations - media strategy and expenses - are, to me, peripheral to the investigation core, which, as Mr Brain pointed out, had already been running for two years. During that two years, was nobody senior assessing it and thinking, "These guys are not up to the job?" ACPO assessed it and advised throughout and according to the leaked reports, thought everything was being done correctly and, when it wasn't, they offered corrective advice which was followed.

We know that Frank Walker, Bill Ogley, and Andrew Lewis were being closely briefed on everything that was happening. Somebody was signing off the expenses and approving them for two years before the press furore happened? Why didn't anybody say anything then?

I'm pretty sure that if we cast a highly critical, negative, retrospective eye over the actions and decisions of TLS, ILM, TLM, BO, SS, COM (all the abbreviations that now trip off our tongues), we could make a very strong case that at some point they acted incompetently and were not up to the job. And that's leaving aside mere mortals like you and me. Well me, at least.

I quoted it earlier, but it's worth it twice: 'Use every man after his desert, and who amongst us would 'scape whipping.'

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And I thought he was SS's Knight on a White Charger.

The thing is a cess-pit. There aint nobody white in the whole affair. It's a pool into which 'no man dived and came up sane.'

Offline Rob Kent

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Re: HDLG Farce Blog
« Reply #104 on: September 12, 2010, 07:24:22 PM »
I just noticed that the Trevor Pitman video links were suppressed because of the no-blog-linking rule. Here they are on YouTube (if you haven't lost the will to live):

Part one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NCxTzKLR90

Part two http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex5dSF5TjIM