Author Topic: Southern at the Centre?  (Read 2361 times)

Offline tonytheprof

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Southern at the Centre?
« on: August 21, 2010, 10:43:10 PM »
How on earth is Geoff Southern, the JDA member in the States, going to "reposition" himself in "the centre"?

Is he going to seek sponsorship from banks as well as unions now?

Offline Calimachon

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2010, 05:11:52 PM »
I always thought he was centred!

Self-Centred!

Cali  ;)
"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2010, 08:50:59 AM »
I don't know if i am missing something here but i always thought that Southern spoke a lot of sense. He also researches his subject very well indeed not like some or most of the other members. He speaks up for the low paid people on this Island,so please tell me where i am going wrong with him.

Offline tonytheprof

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2010, 09:04:15 AM »
He does speak up for the lower paid workers, and that is probably why the Union Unite saw fit to sponsor his election campaign. I wasn't saying he didn't do good work, but that he is perceived by the public as more left wing than centre - his relationship with the Unions being a case in point, much as Labour party members in the UK may well having backing of their Unions (probably more in the past than now).

Ted Vibert's idea to shift the party to the centre then bears an analogue in many respects to Tony Blair's branding of "New Labour" and moving that to the centre.

But that came about under Tony Blair, it was not something that was possible under Michael Foot or even Neil Kinnock (who attempted an earlier rebranding without success - remember the Party Political film directed by Hugh Hudson (of Chariots of Fire fame). It is why Blair rather than Brown was the Labour party leader - charismatic, relatively young, centre-friendly, full of smiles and sound-bites.

I'm not so sure how Geoff Southern can manage this alone, or even Ted Vibert. The JDA launch had a great fanfare, Ted Vibert and Tony Keogh present; any relaunch needs that popular support, and someone younger to lead (even if as with Tony Blair and John Prescott), there would still be a place for the "old guard".

rogueelement

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2010, 10:18:55 AM »
I,m imagining that place right now , sulphur, fire and brimstone and a cold spot in the corner springs to mind.

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2010, 12:32:33 PM »
It has always surprised me that anybody who is with the unions and supporting the lower payed population does not get into the States because if all the union members voted for that person they would get in.
I know some of you run Nick Le Cornu down but listening to him on the lunch time moan in he comes across as a very good person indeed and is for the working class. We know he is a solicitor so is very intelligent and speaks well so i would have thought that he would get into the States. After all the things he is mentioning and what he would like to do sound perfect to me.

Offline tonytheprof

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2010, 01:02:18 PM »
Unfortunately Union endorsement does not always translate into members votes.

In 2008, Geoff Southern ran as a Senatorial candidate, and despite Union endorsement, with a recommendation that members get out and vote for Mr Southern, the result was paltry - it  was clear that either members could not be bothered to vote, or they had decided to vote for other candidates than Mr Southern.

One part of the paradox is that there are working class people who will vote for "the establishment", just as in the UK, working class people (certainly in the past) voted Conservative. The fictional Alf Garnet, who was a working class Tory bigot, was created by Johnny Speight partly drawing from his own experiences of such people.

They will elect people whom they see as having, for example, a sound economic strategy rather than one that does not look credible, and these are the people who won't support Geoff Southern.

That's not saying that either there is a "sound economic strategy" or that the one promoted by the Unions and Mr Southern would not work - I'm personally suspicious of both - but it is a matter of perception, and people vote based on perceptions rather than what may be the case - management speak usually trumps class war speak (which is why one politician uses words like "efficiency" and "comprehensive spending review", but gives very little a way about the fine detail of said review).


Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 10:46:08 PM »
I agree with what you say Tony The Prof and i know that the working class who are union members do not bother to vote which i know that they are not happy with the establishment and they know the wool is getting pulled over their eyes yet still do not vote. It is crazy!

Offline Dylan

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 08:03:40 AM »
Define working class?
!dereggub si draobyek ym kniht I

Offline Calimachon

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 08:45:23 AM »
Define working class?

IMHO working class is not the correct term to use now.  Everyone who works for a living is working class.

There is a whole gammit of people within the working class, as portrayed in the skit run by Monty Python's Circus year's ago, with Dudley Moore, Peter Cook and Ronnie Barker, in which the cloth cap type looked up to the blue collar worker and the white collar worker looked down on the blue collar worker.

I think what the previous poster was trying to impart was -  the type of voter who is probably uneducated, who uses intuition and newspaper headlines, (and possibly the way they part their hair) to assess who they should vote for.  Please forgive me if I am wrong.

I just disliked the manner in which Southern decided it was up to him to chastize another politician in the press.  In my opinion a discerning man of calibre and strong character in a powerful and influential position just does not have to score points off a young politician who is just getting his feet under the table of politics in this manner.  It was at that point that Southern lost any vote I had to give him.  If one has concerns talk directly to the person concerned rather than bandy it about in the press.


Cali :)





 
"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)

Offline Dylan

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 08:54:44 AM »
No-one these days is uneducated, everyone has a shot at education.
!dereggub si draobyek ym kniht I

Offline Calimachon

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 10:25:08 AM »
No-one these days is uneducated, everyone has a shot at education.

You can take the child to the classroom door but you can't make them soak in the lessons.

Cali :)
"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)

Offline Chevalier Blanc

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 10:40:22 AM »
What i call working class are people without a some kind of trade but just do labouring jobs. I do not look down on them but they are the ones that are payed the least and find living hard. Where as the others are in a job requiring a use of the brain etc and can do more than just live but go on holidays, nice car etc. All people are equal as regards them being a human being but in the working world people are not equal. There is still a working class and middle class along with the upper class and that is never going to go away, that is nature of the human being. Now the working class and the middle lass all need the unions to protect them from abused and used in the working place, to make sure they are fairly treated and reasonably well payed and conditions.

Offline Dylan

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 11:05:39 AM »
You mean NQOCD's as opposed to OTOP's ?
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Offline Calimachon

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Re: Southern at the Centre?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 01:37:08 PM »
Working class is anyone who works for wages or a salary:  Sales, Trades, Professions as follows:

Subordinate Class:
  Unskilled Manual
  Skilled Manual

Intermediate Class:
   
  Petty Bourgeousie
  White Collar Workers
  Blue Collar elite

Then there is the Advantaged Class:
  Capitalist class
  Service class
"Life gives to all the choice. You can satisfy yourself with mediocrity if you wish. You can be common, ordinary, dull, colorless, or you can channel your life so that it will be clean,vibrant, progressive, useful, colorful, rich". Spencer W. Kimball (Calimachon is not a Mormon nor is she in any shape or form religious but she thinks this applies to all humans and more so to a Humanist!  :)