Author Topic: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff  (Read 7522 times)

Jason the Maverick

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2008, 04:06:27 AM »
With regard to Polls.  All I am saying is that if the vote goes against the left anti-establishment people they are first to call it rigged!

Offline Millennium Man

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2008, 04:16:57 AM »
Who are these new people?  ???

Anybody independant.

Offline Planet Hollywood

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2008, 05:04:44 AM »
What would happen if you do get Party Politics into the Government but they are always one or two votes short?  For the electorate isn't that a game of chance when you vote for a party in that you have to also hope they get enough in to get items passed?  The JDA by the looks of it all are alway being voted against just because they are the JDA?

Offline Tory Boy

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2008, 05:16:24 AM »
It would be a waste of time having them in there.  The JDA are labour.  We don't want labour in Jersey.  We are Conservative, long term growth, finance and prosperity.  The JDA and Time 4 Change hate our finance industry because none of them understand it,  it is the pinnicle of our glorious economy as we have it now.

 

Offline ageofaquarius

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2008, 06:25:48 AM »
I agree that all this anti GST is blatant electioneering and anyway its too little too late.  Many shops have spent a small fortune updating software etc to deal with GST, so they ain't gonna scrap it now and in any case, Ms Pitman is bloody useless.  Does anyone know what we pay these people a year to govern this little isle?

Offline boatyboy

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2008, 07:17:01 AM »
This may be of interest, just borrowed from, 

Just back and breathless from 29 Belmont Road and guess what? Correct. There is no one who lives there by the name of B Riantz. Does any of this matter? Well the JEP published a letter by a person of that name and at that address criticising Deputy Shona Pitman for insufficient defference toward the (or is it "our"?) Bailiff with a vote of no confidence. Whatever one thinks of the Deputy’s proposition, brave or opportunistic, the letter, like the address, was a spoof. Who wrote it? Probably the journos themselves from the establishment propaganda company.

Is it likely that anyone in the bed-sit land of Belmont Road has the slightest care about the Bailiff, let alone the desire to write a letter in his defence?

continued:-
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 08:20:24 AM by Mod-1 »

Offline Conductor

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2008, 07:59:36 AM »
If Nick Le C turned up knocking at your door after you had sent a letter, would you answer it?  I have been reading the same thread and the T4C movement is getting seriously paranoid now, they have removed 2 of my posts this morning.  No explanation.  They just did not want to hear my views on it. 

Chief Minister

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2008, 09:27:20 AM »
If Nick Le C turned up knocking at your door after you had sent a letter, would you answer it?

What is he standing again? 

http://user.itl.net/~geraint/politics2.html

St. Brelade No. 2 District
Deputy Mike Vibert
865 votes

Deputy Max de la Haye
566 votes

elected Connétable 11/10/99

Graham Thorne
519 votes

David Ratel
498 votes

Angela Trigg
486 votes

Nick Le Cornu
361 votes

Tom Jordan
359 votes

Offline danrok

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2008, 10:29:08 AM »
Just back and breathless from 29 Belmont Road and guess what? Correct. There is no one who lives there by the name of B Riantz.

Certainly, the language used in that letter would suggest it is unlikely to have been written by someone who lives in Belmont Road, e.g. "the temerity to criticise our Bailiff" and "How profound, how erudite are the utterances".

Jason the Maverick

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2008, 10:45:38 AM »
Cough.... Err, you are not stereotyping people that live in Belmont Road I hope!

Offline Conductor

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2008, 12:15:22 PM »
Certainly, the language used in that letter would suggest it is unlikely to have been written by someone who lives in Belmont Road.

Why should it have been in Polish or Portuguese?

Offline Deputy Dawg

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2008, 03:15:46 PM »
Certainly, the language used in that letter would suggest it is unlikely to have been written by someone who lives in Belmont Road, e.g. "the temerity to criticise our Bailiff" and "How profound, how erudite are the utterances".
Certainly educated, and the letter did read well. I must admit to having to agree with a number of the points the writer put forward, what exactly has she done in her three years of ass kicking? (that was a K not an L).

I think where they go wrong with attacking the bailiff is that they should be attacking the position and not the person. Fine the Bailiff has made a few cock ups in the latest speeches which most of us agree are in bad taste, but the problem is not the person.

The role of bailiff as a casting voter and who allows our elected to talk or not talk when they themselves are not elected by the people is the main area that needs to be discussed, not the person in the position. Assuming that you get rid of the current Bailiff with Pitman's vote, you will have to replace him with someone else and they will be worse or better than the current one, but will still have the same powers that are not bestowed upon him/her by the electorate.

The problem with all of these votes of no confidence or other attacks on members is that they inevitably become personal attacks and don't go to the hub of the problem eg with the Bailiff its the post not the person, with Walker it should have been his ability and not what he said. Its easy to defend words, not so easy to defend actions and while these people just attack people through their words with weak accusations, then Walker the Ministers and the Bailiff will have nothing to fear with these votes.

Jason the Maverick

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2008, 10:55:55 AM »
2 more letters in tonight's rag.  One for by Deputy Southern's wife is it?  And another one against.
"From Anne Southern.
I WAS disappointed to read the personal attack on Deputy Shona Pitman (JEP, 2 July) by Collette Crill, whose work for Amnesty International I admire and support.

She claims to be unaware of any of Deputy Pitman’s achievements; that is not to say that there have been none.

The Deputy works hard both to ensure the rights of her constituents and to fulfil her role on Scrutiny, and being in touch with the electorate, is very aware of how offensive many found the Bailiff’s words on Liberation Day.

He seemed to imply that revealing Jersey’s dark secrets was more scandalous than the nature of those secrets themselves. This only confirms the feeling that the establishment are operating a ‘cover-up’ policy.

It is interesting that Mrs Crill accuses Deputy Pitman of belonging to a ‘cabal’ - a group that operates in secret and indulges in conspiracy. On the contrary, she belongs to the JDA, which is a properly constituted political party, with the openly stated aims of promoting democracy, and as such it is supported by the Rowntree Foundation.

This party openly declares the dual role of the Bailiff to be unconstitutional. It is the establishment of this Island that is perceived to conspire in secret and could therefore more properly be labelled a ‘cabal’.

To defend the Bailiff on the grounds that he could earn more in private practice is again offensive, as most of us who work in the public service could earn more elsewhere, our salaries being only a fraction of the Bailiff’s; the status and power that accompany his role should more than compensate him for any loss of income. The cost to the taxpayer of his salary is around six times that of a Deputy.

Deputy Pitman is representing those who elected her by bringing before the States the concerns felt by many. She does not deserve to be attacked, and especially not by someone who is campaigning to restore democracy to Zimbabwe by seeking transparency in its electoral process.

I am in no way comparing the Bailiff to Robert Mugabe, but the principle of opposing the exercise of power by those not properly elected remains the same".

My only comment on the above is how many people does Deputy Pitman actually represent?  I wouldn't say a big percentage.

"I CANNOT believe that the Bailiff of Jersey is to face a vote of no confidence because of a judgment of character, a speech and his traditional role.

What on earth does Deputy Pitman think she will achieve by pushing this through?

The last time I checked there was something I believe they call free speech. I could understand how a few people may have taken offence but I wholeheartedly agree with the quote ‘it is the unjustified and remorseless denigration of Jersey and her people that is the real scandal’.

Why is the Bailiff being persecuted for expressing his opinion? He did not in any way deter from the fact that the child abuse cases were not important merely that Jersey does not deserve to be punished and humiliated in the way it has been by the media on all fronts.

As for the Holland case, as Attorney General it was his opinion given the facts and circumstances which dictates what happens. If he thought that Holland was honestly trying to correct his ways through giving back to the community then so be it.

Roger Holland freely admitted to the fact he had this conviction during his application. I am sure there are many policemen and personnel in the world serving in a similar manner with similar convictions unbeknown to their employer; is that not worse?

Every judgment made in a court is down to facts and how these are interpreted; if this is how the Bailiff is to be judged, it would only be fair that every court judgment be scrutinised in the same manner.

Finally his role in the States. I do not understand how this can be something against him. Perhaps I do not have the full understanding but how can someone have a vote of no confidence because they were fulfilling the role they have been appointed to? I agree that there should be separation between the two roles but can this really be counted against Sir Philip?

People wonder why Jersey cannot generate tourism anymore, why the agriculture industry is dying and why youth crime steadily rises and I’ll tell you it’s because the States waste far too much time, effort and money on petty little items such as this with no real standing when there are far more pressing issues in the Island. I sincerely hope that Deputy Pitman’s career comes to a rapid end because there are already far too few politicians in the Island who actual know what it is to be an ordinary Jersey citizen".

I think the JDA have done a lot of self harm over the past week and I still believe this vote against the Bailiff will blow back in their faces.  The reason is just to limp in my opinion and it is another example of attempted destruction and not construction as was echoed in the States last week.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 11:06:06 AM by JTM »

Offline danrok

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2008, 11:09:44 AM »
"The last time I checked there was something I believe they call free speech."

Actually, free speech does not always apply.

Few of us are able to speak 100% freely when working, we have to obey certain rules and procedures, when talking to customers for example.  The same applies to the Bailiff when he is working, and representing Jersey.

Jason the Maverick

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Re: Shona Pitman: Vote of No Confidence in the Bailiff
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2008, 11:30:13 AM »
I agree with what you are saying, but since the liberation speech, lets be realistic here.  The Media did have a frenzy and I put the sole blame for this on the zealous Deputy Chief of Police Lenny Harper.

There is no skull, and that’s fact now.  The teeth and bones have not been mentioned for what?  over a month now?  So we can assume that is another inconclusive find.  And there have been what 3 arrests so far when we were told there were 70 suspects or something?

In hindsight the Bailiff was right and in his capacity as a judge in saying that media attention of the Island was over-kill it was spot on.  Now this is my opinion and I know some people will disagree with it.  But the history of the whole reporting of this child abuse case from a dead child onwards has been a red herring as far as the proof of murder is concerned.

Freedom of speech and a job?  I think this Liberation speech debacle is being used as a political stick to beat him with and nothing else now to be frank.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 11:33:15 AM by JTM »